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Tagedieb
Anmeldedatum: 16.05.2018
Beiträge: 103
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 Verfasst am: 27.05.2020, 13:30 Titel: Re: Seedrs: Bolt (nun Etergo) |
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Allerdings anders als erwartet... Mitleid ist aber fehl am Platze.
Um das Geld ist es mir nicht schade, das Risiko eines Totalausfalls ist bei jedem dieser Investments ist jedem vorher klar.
Ernüchternd ist allerdings, dass man als Crowdinvestor nichts ist. Es ist schon das dritte Mal, dass ich erleben musste, wie die Crowd einfach überrollt wird. Es war doch jedem klar, dass noch viele Millionen investiert werden müssen, wenn man schon die Parallele zu Tesla zieht, dann doch bitte richtig.
Ein indischer Konzern hat also zugeschlagen. Gratulation Europa. Lese gerade - ganz passend - das Buch: "Unsere asiatische Zukunft", und musste trotz allem schmunzeln, als ich von Ola in der E-Mail von etergo las. |
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Zedandi
Anmeldedatum: 02.11.2016
Beiträge: 1486
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| Verfasst am: 27.05.2020, 14:49 Titel: Re: Seedrs: Bolt (nun Etergo) |
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Mit Ola als neuem Besitzer wird aus dem Roller vielleicht ja doch noch mal was. Aber auch so wird das schwer gegen chinesische Anbieter wie NIU anzustinken, die bauen jetzt schon mehrere hundertausend Roller pro Jahr, wachsen rasant und sind schon international mit einem leistungsfähigen Vertrieb vertreten. Deren Produkte sind auch echt top und haben ebenfalls viele smarte Funktionen (GPS, Fahrzeugdiagnostic, App, OTA-Updates etc.). Am Ende wird der Preis entscheiden und hier wird sich der Wettbewerb noch einheitzen wenn die zig chinesischen Volumenhersteller erstmal auf lithium-Ionen umstellen, was NIU als Premiumhersteller schon längst getan hat (und damit bisher entsprechend geringe Stückzahlen hatte)... Aber das wurde im etergo-Pitch damals ja schon länglich diskutiert, daher hatte ich vorher auch schon Bedenken am langfristigen wirtschaftlichen Erfolg von etergo. Jetzt mit Ola werden die Karten allerdings neu gemischt und das Produkt konnte ja auch überzeugen.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/why-electric-motor-scooters-are-leading-electric-vehicle-revolution-in-asia |
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Claus Lehmann
Site Admin
Anmeldedatum: 31.08.2007
Beiträge: 17507
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| Verfasst am: 02.07.2020, 22:50 Titel: Re: Seedrs: Bolt (nun Etergo) |
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ein Investor hat sich beim Financial Ombudsman beschwert und eine relativ ausführliche Antwort bekommen.
Allerdings hätte ich auch nichts anderes als Antwort erwartet, denn ich kann hier eigentlich keinen Fehler von Seedrs* feststellen (ausser vielleicht dass die Kommunikation schneller und besser sein könnte
G.B. via FB:
| Zitat: | Thank you for your patience whilst I investigated your complaint. I have completed my investigation and provided a response in full below.
To summarise, you invested €100.13 in Bolt Mobility B.V. (“Etergo” or “the Business”) on 23rd August 2017, via the Seedrs* Limited (“Seedrs”) platform. On 04 February 2020 you purchased a further 527 Etergo shares from another shareholder at a price of €216.07, on the Seedrs* Secondary Market. On 27th May 2020, Etergo was bought by a third party company in the electric vehicle industry (the “Purchaser”) at a valuation lower than at the time you acquired your Etergo shares. As a result of this transaction you received a return of €18.98 on your investment, which was deposited into your Seedrs* Investment Account.
As previously communicated, I understand your complaint to be threefold:
You are unhappy that Seedrs* will not remove €18.98 from your Seedrs* Investment Account, the amount returned to you as a result of the Etergo sale;
You claim that Seedrs* was involved in scamming investors; and
You believe that Seedrs* does not provide the same level of protection as those investors investing small amounts, as it does to those investing larger amounts.
I will address each of these points in turn below.
1. Removal of Sale Proceeds.
Seedrs is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”), and must comply with specific rules in relation to client money. This includes ensuring that any money due and payable to our clients is paid when due. As such the proceeds from the sale of your Etergo shares were deposited into your Seedrs* Investment Account as soon as the funds were received into our client money account. These rules also prevent Seedrs* from removing your money from your Investment Account. Further information on how Seedrs* holds client money and distributes returns from your investments can be found in Sections 8.4 and 8.6 of the Membership Agreement, which you agreed to on 08 April 2015, when signing up to Seedrs. Please find this agreement attached.
I appreciate that you are disappointed with the loss made on your investment in Etergo and understand that you would rather the money was donated to charity or to other Seedrs’ clients who had suffered a loss as a result of their investment in Etergo, however it is not possible for Seedrs* to do so on your behalf. As explained in your correspondence with Seedrs* Chief Investment Officer, Kirsty Grant, you may withdraw those funds at any time in order to donate as you wish.
2. Scamming investors and untruthful data.
In order to investigate your claim of (i) Seedrs* scamming investors and (ii) using and providing investors with untruthful data, I have:
Interviewed relevant members the Seedrs* Investment Team;
Reviewed the Etergo campaign (“the Campaign”), which you invested in;
Assessed the due diligence conducted on Etergo;
Reviewed any relevant documentation relating to the Campaign, your investment in Etergo, and the sale of Etergo; and
Reviewed relevant communication provided by Seedrs* to Etergo investors.
To clarify, Etergo completed a funding round on the Seedrs* platform on 01 September 2017 and Seedrs* was not involved in the Business’ more recent fundraisings. From my investigation I found that comprehensive due diligence was performed on the Business by the Seedrs* Investment Team at the time of raising with Seedrs. I have concluded that the due diligence was completed in line with the Seedrs* Due Diligence Charter in order to ensure the investment was properly structured, the company was what it claimed to be and that the Campaign information presented at the time of investing was accurate. I’d also like to take this opportunity to remind you that Seedrs* will never provide a view on whether something is a good investment or not. That decision ultimately lies with the investor. It is Seedrs’ responsibility to ensure all campaigns are fair, clear and not misleading so that you can use accurate information to make investment decisions. From my investigation, I have concluded that the Campaign was fair, clear and not misleading.
I’d also like to take this opportunity to remind you that, as stated in the Risk Warnings, which you accepted upon signing up to the platform, you should expect that capital may be lost while investing in early-stage and growth-focussed businesses and you should not invest more money than you can afford to lose.
You mentioned in your correspondence with Kirsty Grant that you believe the Business did not receive a €10 million investment, as stated in the post-investment page. I can confirm that Etergo successfully raised €10 million from a single investor by way of a convertible loan note in December 2018. Signed documentation was received as proof of this loan before it was communicated to Seedrs* investors. Kirsty Grant provided an explanation on 04 April 2019 on why this investment did not affect the share price of the Business.
From my review I noted that Etergo conducted a further crowdfunding round, supported by a prospectus and run solely via the Etergo website in 2019. This fundraise was communicated to Seedrs* investors in two posts on the Etergo post-investment page. On 16 May 2019, Kirsty Grant informed investors that there would be no pre-emption rights for Seedrs* investors due to differing regulations. On 06 January 2020 Portfolio Associate, Suhaylah Chatoo, informed investors that €3,965,874 had been raised and the share price would be updated to €0.41 to reflect the Business’ new valuation.
In relation to the sale of the Business, I appreciate that you may have felt that more information relating to the transaction could have been provided to you prior to the transaction date on 27 May 2020. From my review of correspondence with investors, I can see that Etergo shared an update on their Seedrs* post-investment page on 04 May 2020, informing investors that they were in a difficult position and were struggling through the operating climate created by the COVID-19 pandemic. On the same date further information was provided from Kirsty Grant, who informed investors that a positive resolution was unlikely.
To provide you with some context on Seedrs’ role as nominee, one aspect relates to company sales. Please find attached the investment agreement which you agreed to at the time of investing in Etergo (“Investment Agreement”). You will see in Section 11.1 that Seedrs* does not make voluntary buy or sell decisions on behalf of investors. However, when there is a complete sale of the company investors have no choice as to whether to sell, either by operation of law or through drag-along rights. This was the case with the sale of Etergo. The decision to sell was made by the Etergo shareholders. As such, Seedrs* in it’s role as nominee could not pass on any decision to investors. During the negotiations that took place, Seedrs* (on behalf of its nominee shareholders) and along with other Business shareholders negotiated to provide a return to investors. I appreciate that this was at a significant loss, however the alternative was for the Business to go into liquidation in which it would be highly likely that investors would see no return. Despite owning 46% of the share capital of Etergo at completion of the sale, I can confirm that the Etergo founders did not receive any portion of the proceeds of this sale. Instead, it was a condition of the agreement of the other shareholders that they would waive their right to receive any portion of the proceeds.
I appreciate that making a loss on your investment is disappointing however I have found no evidence of any information provided to investors as being inaccurate or Seedrs* scamming investors with untruthful data.
3. You believe that Seedrs* does not provide the same level of protection to investors who invest small amounts, as it does to those who invest large amounts.
I can confirm that the same protections are provided to all Seedrs* investors, regardless of how much they invest through the platform. Furthermore, all Seedrs’ investors will invest on the same terms in any given campaign. This is achieved by requiring all Seedrs* investors to agree to standard membership and investment agreements, which are automatically generated when signing up as an investor on Seedrs* and when making each investment, respectively. I can confirm that it is not possible for any edits or extra clauses to be included for any individual investor. As such, I have determined that Seedrs* does provide the same level of protection to all investors, regardless of the value of the investment.
Whilst I understand that you are frustrated, in light of my findings I will not be upholding your complaint. If you are dissatisfied with my response then you may, if eligible, have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge, but you must do so within six months (after which the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint). Further details can be found at https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/cons…/how-to-complain. That said, if you have any further questions, I would urge you to contact me again in the first instance |
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Meine Investments (aktualisiert 03/22):
Laufend: Bondora*, Investly*, Estateguru*, Ablrate*, Moneything* (Rest), Crowdestate* (Rest), Fellow Finance* (Rest), October* (Rest), Linked Finance*, Lenndy* (Rest), Assetz*, Plenti, Neofinance* (Rest), Lendermarket*,
Beendet: Smava*, Auxmoney*, MyC4, Zidisha, Crosslend*, Lendico*, Omarahee, Lendy*, Bondmason, Finbee*, Bulkestate*, Zlty, Mintos*, Iuvo*, Robocash*, Viainvest*, Viventor*
Crowdinvesting: Seedrs*, Crowdcube, Housers* (Rest), Reinvest24*, Landex* |
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nobodyofconsequence
P2P Legende
Anmeldedatum: 02.09.2007
Beiträge: 5207
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| Verfasst am: 02.07.2020, 22:55 Titel: Re: Seedrs: Bolt (nun Etergo) |
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| Aber dass die Antwort offensichtlich von Seedrs* geschrieben ist, ist schon etwas pikant, da hätte der Ombudsman schon mal zumindest die Formulierungen besser anpassen können... |
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Claus Lehmann
Site Admin
Anmeldedatum: 31.08.2007
Beiträge: 17507
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| Verfasst am: 26.03.2023, 19:53 Titel: Re: Seedrs: Bolt (nun Etergo) |
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Bei Bolt / Etergo gibt es noch bis zum 31.03. die Möglichkeit sich für die Sammelklage / Untersuchung zu registrieren.
Hab ich heute gemacht. Finanziell ist es eh egal da ich nur 53 Anteile im Wert von 10,07 EUR hatte.
Aber vielleicht liefert die Untersuchung einen interessanten Bericht, was wirklich in den letzten Wochen vor dem Verkauf abgelaufen ist.
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Meine Investments (aktualisiert 03/22):
Laufend: Bondora*, Investly*, Estateguru*, Ablrate*, Moneything* (Rest), Crowdestate* (Rest), Fellow Finance* (Rest), October* (Rest), Linked Finance*, Lenndy* (Rest), Assetz*, Plenti, Neofinance* (Rest), Lendermarket*,
Beendet: Smava*, Auxmoney*, MyC4, Zidisha, Crosslend*, Lendico*, Omarahee, Lendy*, Bondmason, Finbee*, Bulkestate*, Zlty, Mintos*, Iuvo*, Robocash*, Viainvest*, Viventor*
Crowdinvesting: Seedrs*, Crowdcube, Housers* (Rest), Reinvest24*, Landex* |
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